Since I see a lot of shit coming both from Russian, European and American news channels, and since I'm not indifferent to what happens, I've decided to make a short list of facts you might find interesting to know:

1. Georgia is not a part of United States; it's a separate independent country located in Europe.
2. Osetia is not a part of Georgia; it's a separate independent country, although unrecognized (just like Kosovo before claiming its independence).
3. Most of people living in Osetia are Russians, they speak Russian, share Russia culture and what's very important, officially have Russian citizenship.
4. There is no democracy in Georgia; US have nothing to "defend" there. Saakashvili is a typical tyrannic leader with depressed mass-media and opposition, lots of politic arrests, lots of his public opponents been strangely killed etc.
5. The war started when Georgian forces started to bomb people living in Tskhinval (a small boundary Osetian town). There were NO military forces in Tskhinval these days; they appeared later. The only valid reason for Saakashvili to start that war I see is: to make Osetia become a part of Georgia while Georgia has United States as their "friend".
6. The victims of Georgian bombing were mainly innocent people. The exact number of people died is still unknown, but the most correct number I've found are: about 2 thousand people died, about 30 thousand people became refugees.
7. The only reason for Russian military forces to enter Georgia was the protection of Osetian people; heck, there is no other way to stop bombs being launched from another country but to enter it!
8. After destroying the Georgian military base located in Gory's outskirts, Russian forces have stopped. We don't need Georgia, and Gory itself (a boundary Georgian town) was never attacked by us.
9. After making the first diplomatic steps to stop the war (thanks to Sarkosi), most of Russian forces returned to Russia.
10. Apparently, USA blames Russia for defending innocent people, since we didn't do much aside from that. :/

Sad sad thing wars..... Trouble is with todays media, a lot of it is propoganda anyway which distorts the facts to suit the country they are broadcast in. Also posting exagerated facts and white lies sells more papers and advertising space and earns these news corps money.

No matter what happens innocent people suffer. And we shuld all spare a throught for innocent victims on both sides!

I doubt peace is something that will never be achieved in the world but all i know is that this place is a place where people come together. No matter where anyone is from on here we are all equals and its almost like there is no boundries or borders. I am proud to know and discuss things from all over he world, many different cultures.

We are a good family on here, and it gives us a chance to look beyond political barries at the people behind, and realise that good people are everywhere!

ok now I am rambling on now.

-Carl

Awww..? russian, Americans? What happens on this place? ... we are all humans and we are all equal ... can not understand the purpose of your question ...

Serge is sending datas from a conflict that is real ...

GH is absolutely right here. Regardless of the intent, internet discussions on stuff like this always get ugly.

Seconded.   And bear in mind that despite what is being said by either side (and it's not exclusively the US/Georgia against Russia anyway) the truth in these cases often lies somewhere in the middle.

G.H.
No, this topic does not imply a flamewar, unless you start one. I'm not sure why you are being so aggressive towards me, since I'm not attacking U.S. in my first post at all, I did that intentionally, to keep peace in the topic. All I wanted to say is... well, it's posted in my first post and there is nothing to add/to explain.

Osetian lives, please note that. Yes, it's horrible to know that so many innocent people have died. Georgia has lost people too, but almost all of them were military, and knowing that a soldier has died is not the same as knowing that an innocent man/woman has died. At least, that's not the same for me.

Besides, official casualties are incomparable between Georgia and Osetia... the first country has lost less than 300 lives, while the second one even officially lost 2 thousand people, and that number still can raise...

Okay, I want to go there now... and distracted a bit from the topic. 

CCD!

I see that you belive in human equality and philosophy...
But when you belive in scientific facts you contradict your own words... because:

You can tell, that we are all based on the same atomic structure... but a cake is also based on the same ingredients - but there are sweet cakes and bitter cakes and sweeter cakes and less sweet cakes. 
If you want the facts, you are wrong that we share a same genetic code - we ALL have a absolute unique genetic code - some of us even descend from different types of monkeys / apes. And you absolutely cannot tell me that chinese, african, european, native american and inuits have the same base DNA... where shall they get this from? Adam and Eve? *lol*
No, it is fact that different human evoultion lines developed parallel in the same time. Read about it on the internet or read a book or magazine.


Disagree - I do not share the same feelings like 7 billion other people. Sure, some people can have same feelings like love and friendship and hate... but they are all based on different experience and they are all unique. I mean, If everybody have the same feelings - than everybody would be hetero, gay and bi- and a-sexual at the same time, for example. That is... strange.

Everytime the poor children... They are the future... they are the hope... they will lead us... What else have those poor innocence to do?!? Leave them alone, man!  We, the adult, have the power to change the world - WE have to learn... WE have to change... not our offsprings...

The last sentence is so confusing... I take a break here...

I prefer to say "people are similar."

Dagdamor
Then please don't single us out as the only people disapproving of Russian actions... really, it's the whole world community. Please be more specific unless you're just lying to my face. And I'm inclined to believe the latter for two reasons.

First of all, the topic name is "US vs. Russia". Vs. Russia? What is this, a boxing match?

Secondly, you said "Apparently, USA blames Russia for defending innocent people, since we didn't do much aside from that. :/". You're completely making us sound like the bad guys here. Really, the majority of the world blames Russia for its actions, not just the United States. Again, next time, don't single us out.

I don't want this to devolve into a nationalistic flamewar, and I'm sure you don't either (or at least I would hope you don't). But I'm not going to sit idly by and let you make America out to be the bad guys here. We aren't.

My opinion:
Everyone is born equal, genetics aside. The largest contributing factor to who a person becomes is environment. That includes family, friends, and community on all levels.

That is why we can end up with an Albert Einstein or... say an Adolf Hitler from the same part of the world and relatively the same time. (example only!)

Ours views and choices are all affected by our own personal experiences.

G.H.
First, the topic says "Georgia vs. Osetia", and what you has quoted, is put within parenthesises, and followed by a question sign. This means that I'm not claiming anything about US, but asking that, suspecting that. If I'm wrong - I'd like to see a valid arguments proving that.

Second, no need to claim that all the world is blaming Russia. It's not so. Most of European countries preferred to take neutral side (which is quite smart), some support Russia, some Georgia. It's normal. No one supports US, for the simple reason: they weren't, at least officially, a part of the conflict. There is no need to support US, because nobody blames US in that conflict (it's obvious that it was solely Saakashvili's decision, without America involved) or any actions related to it. But I find it unfair that US started to slander our country on the official level. It was plain disgusting, what I heard both from Bush, McCain and even Obama.

G.H.
If you use the "Russia bombing Georgia" sentence again and again, then you either didn't read the first post or doesn't believe my words at all. In the whole conflict, there was only one episode which can be interpreted as "Russia bombing Georgia": when our aircraft destroyed the main radar in the Georgian military base. That's all. All other operations were performed by land forces. Do you know why it was so important to destroy that radar? Because Georgian army used it to aim their bombs at Tskhinval. Do you know which bombs were used by Georgian army? It were "Grad" ("Massacre") complexes, specially developed to raze cities to the ground. Do you want to know how Tskhinval looks now? You better find some photos and look.

I know there were rumors that Russia have used cassette bombs on Georgia (I wonder why not nuclear). But all of them turned out to be fake afterwards. Even European news stopped repeating that fake now, only US still do. I know there were rumors that Russian forces were close to Tbilisi (Georgia's capital). But Saakashvili, who said it first, later publicly admitted that it was his own tanks column. Again, after Saakashvili admitted his own mistake, European news stopped repeating it, but not US ones...

Vanguard20
Thank you.

Dagdamor
I know you want to have the last word in this, and you know that I won't allow you to get away without some kind of compromise. Russia bombed Georgia, accept it. Read the news story provided by Vanguard20.

I don't know why you chose to create this thread, as all other members said only bad things come of it. I'm not looking for absolution from you - all I want is for you to acknowledge that this was a poor move at best, to post something like this here. If you're so sure that your nation is in the right here, then why create a thread about it? Nobody was sitting around saying "DAMN THOSE ASSHOLE RUSSIANS FOR ATTACKING GEORGIA", so why bring the subject to LTS in the first place?

Vanguard20, seriously... pipe down.

You might have all the reasons in this world, but joining on this board just to post in a side thread like the starting poster was your drinking buddy, using offensive tones and witty remarks, and all of this as your only first post?

Change your way, immediately.

P.S.: the correct spelling is "fallacious".

I'm sorry, since when is commenting on obvious statements trolling? If anyone around here is trolling it is you, you gave this thread a loaded title intending to get a reaction from non-Russian members. Dont get pissy because people are calling you on it.


How about a video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b6yOFkyINs&feature=related



The article says a bit of truth, too, I must admit:



For defence?