Yggdrasill
Sorry in advance if I misunderstood you, but are you saying that if somehow God is proven to exist you'll still be against Him? Pardon me saying but that sounds like a rather stubborn point of view to take...

Let me explain. My religion is based on the fact that Jesus died on the cross to save humanity from our sins, and that he rose again three days later, and ascended into Heaven where he waits now, preparing the new kingdom. Many of you have heard of people's efforts to find the body of Christ to disprove Christianity... so far their efforts have been fruitless. And I fully expect them to find no solid proof that Christ's corpse is still there.

However, in some parallel, hypothetical universe, if they did find the body of Christ in some tomb, and it was 100% definitely him (don't ask how they'd know this, it's just hypothetical), I would have to stop believing my religion because, well, there would be solid proof against it. It's like this with atheism... if somehow God was proven to exist (a feat that I believe no human can accomplish; religion is based on faith), then you would still not believe? Seems rather ignorant and unwise, I am sorry to say...

Waiting for the topic split.

Kasper
So, you're asking why then that you've had such a horrible life? And why you are commanded to honor your parents?

Well, if you look at this passage in context, honoring your parents is commanded, yes... but it's a two way street. Fathers and mothers are given guidelines and how they are supposed to treat their children and each other... If your mother and father have abused and rejected you, should you still honor them? Of course not, God doesn't expect you to give back to them what they have not given to you. What you should give them, though, is your forgiveness. God commands us to forgive all those who need it, and believe me, everyone needs it... why do you think Jesus died on the cross? So that we could ALL be forgiven, every single one of us, even the most wretched sinners need only to turn to Christ and accept His love... and all is forgiven.

Even if your earthly father has abandoned you, why turn away from your true Father? The one who made us all... He will never abandon you. Some people have it tougher than others, but this is no reason to despair, because this short life on earth is just a test. No matter what hell you've been through, someone else has it worse. Don't let this harden your heart.

Also: I encourage this topic to be split... it would be quite an interesting topic on its own.

Kasper
Where to begin. As for your views on how Christianity should be, it seems noble but overall it is utterly defeated by the truth... and that is that religion is based on different interpretations of what is right and wrong, the earth, why we are here, what happens when we die, etc. etc. The entire purpose of religion is to provide answers for these questions, and that is why even though Buddhism teaches noble lessons, overall it is horribly lacking in other areas...

As for your final words - about my "someone out there has it worse" statement - I guess it's supposed to make you feel that way, if you want the cold hard truth. Because when you complain ceaselessly about your own life's problems and expect the world to cater to you just because of what you've been through, that is selfish. Not saying this about you alone, but everyone out there who needs some kind of special help to get them through the night is, in my opinion, weak.

My views on this used to be different. I used to be very sympathetic to people with these kinds of problems, or in tough situations - and Lord knows I've been there, am still there, will be there for a long time. And I am not saying that talking to a friend every once and awhile about things that are bothering you is bad; it's healthy to clear your mind. But when you make it out to be your great handicap, the reason why you need constant help and nobody can blame you! No, not poor me at all! I guess this is another reason why I'm not going to post anymore lyrics. I'm making this out to be MY great handicap - O woe is me! Rejection! I'm through showing weakness.

Sending problems or tough situations in life is God's way of testing you to see how you will take it. Some people can't take it, and commit suicide, one of the worst sins there is. Taking the life that God gave you freely, and willingly throwing it away during hard times? Nothing is worth that. Others perservere through these times and eventually come out of the woods, stronger for it. (And as for this life being but a short test - it is. I can't figure out for the life of me why you think that takes the beauty out of it though. A test it is, a test to see whether or not you will accept Christ's offer of forgiveness.)

My point is, you're not the only one with a problem. And even though you hate to hear that, hear it well, because it's the truth. You need to toughen up during these dark times... we all have them. I've had them (having them, really), but we all endure. Humans can endure extraordinary amounts of suffering... you just have to stay with it to find out how much you can really take.

Anyway, sorry to sound so brutal, and I know this will probably surprise some people here to hear me talking like this.

Dagdamor
I don't know, perhaps "Life and death" or something...

GeorgeHarrison
Sorry, but WOW! That's utterly narrow minded.

Again, those words strike people very differently, but it doesn't help anyone in any way to make them feel worse. Also, do you think I'm ceaselessly complaining about my problems in life? No, I never do, in fact, I spit on all my past troubles and ignore them. As of lately though, I have been trying to place blame on my past because I'm such a washed up wreck in real life. I hate myself, what I've become, I used to put all blame on myself for my state, it isn't in me to complain and place blame on others. Thanks to the sociologist I'm currently seeing, I now try to replace my self disgust. It's not really going in the right direction though.
Reminds me of nazism... but please elaborate, just don't ignore my words. I know my words don't nearly express the pain, no words can. But let's put it in context.
You're 14 years old, you don't have the words of christ, there's no motivation at all, no wisdom or caring around you to make you feel better.
Everything is out to get you, your family, your classmates, every single student in the area, people on the street. Every single person does everything to put you down, they make you feel worthless, make you feel fear, confusion, anger, and lonely. All you've got is your own thoughts which are tangled up and twisted because of the lack of "good" in your life. You'll feel sad, depressed, walking in circles in your room, falling to the floor, bashing your head against the wall, squeezing whatever you can hold on to, thinking that this is how its always been and always will be, unfair, pointless and no chance of change.
If you do not understand this, which evidently you don't, then you haven't seen how destructible and devastating the human mind can really be. Hence your vision is clouded by this narrow look, thinking you've got it all figured out and that you know "right", while it's not that simple. Really specious.
Lets take this to your words on suicide, at these later years one might discover the "refuge of suicide". Take the example above, there is absolutely no ultimatum that could say a person suffering like this must be punished or frowned upon, because someone/something placed the idea of suicide in his head.This person is not weak, it's just how the human mind works which in this case we'll assume that God designed. Personally, I think this person may actually have reason not to take his life, but how was he going to know that? In his head, he couldn't figure out a reason not to, which is really understandable. To sum it up? I think suicide is a terrible thing when practiced by someone who hasn't got enough reason to, but in such extreme, horrific cases, there's lots of people, it's understandable. If God sees it differently, he should make sure that everyone has a reason to live, in this sense religion helps. Does everyone know it? No, of course not. I personally think it's quite the miracle that I never resorted to take or even try to take my life, but this is similar to an above case... I just don't work that way, it's like it's predefined in me.
It makes everything seem restricted and pointless, like we're not supposed to care about anything or anyone, just endure? A test? Fills me with confidence and joy. Like "You will always be insignificant and whatever you try to accomplish won't matter." Kinda feels like God and Jesus boasting. I'd explain these more, but...
I've got much more to say, but all I've got to say is that it all works towards the narrow mindedness, which is just discouraging.

Dagdamor
Thanks! I don't think it'll come to conflict, I harbor no ill will or disrespect for George, and if I'm not mistaken, George doesn't really appear to be steering it that way either. Just a peaceful discussion, no hate involved... in any case I thank George for taking the time to respond, my views on christianity and religion have somewhat altered, for the better I think.

D.B.
Hey hey, glad to see more participation! Thanks for the words, it's always interesting to hear other peoples opinions, and I must say that I think what you say really checks out well. Thank you for mentioning "agnostic" by the way, I couldn't quite place myself as an atheist and I didn't know what the proper term for my beliefs would be.
To make it clear, I was born christian, baptised, although this was probably the wishes of some other relatives... no one in my family is religious (and probably never really gave it a deep thought) and I've never had a reason to even think about religion. Up until lately I guess I've been an atheist because of my previous skewed thoughts, but agnostic would definitly be the right word for me now. Or perhaps "atheist with agnostic leanings" as proposed by you, I must give that one a thought o_O
Again, thank you very much. Sometimes hearing the wisdom of others is reassuring, even if the principles of the subject are already rock solid in there.

GeorgeHarrison
Ahh, now there's a good way to put things. I'm not going to question anything, it's all rather pure and true.
I've got one final question to ask, then I'm done with personal questions, my mind is much more at ease now.
I don't really have any knowledge about these, but what about baptism, confirmation, confessing sins to a priest and such? I think the thought of having to do such... rituals (bad choice of word?) don't really make sense. I know there are christians who don't believe that not doing such things (the non fire and brimstone ones, I guess )  makes you impure, but then why are these things done? All I know is that baptism is about washing away original sin (I think) and confirmation is about accepting His love. As for confessing, isn't a mans regrets better left between him and God?
I thought a little bit about it and I think that I'd consider myself agnostic with christian leanings actually, even if it will never be an ultimatum to me, it will always have alot of appeal and affection. If a strong enough sign/proof were to be presented, I'd no doubt be converting to christianity entirely. For now all I can say is thank you, I will definitly take time to study around religion more.

Cheers!

Kasper
A Roman Catholic will tell you one version of this... but I'm not Catholic, and so I'll tell you mine. There are no required "rituals" to live a good Christian life. Baptism is just a way to show that you are willing to follow Christ in every way, and be one of His many disciples in the world. Baptism is encouraged, but if you never get baptized, it's not like you're going to Hell; I've never been baptized, as a matter of fact. As for confession, you're right, it should be between you and God. Prayer is a way of fellowship between you and God, even though God knows your thoughts and concerns, He wants you to talk to him about it anyway, as a son would take his problems before his father.

The Catholic faith includes certain things in the Christian religion that are never mentioned in the Bible, such as purgatory, limbo, confession... and while I don't believe in any of these, I don't consider Catholics any less saved that anyone else who believes in Christ. My view is, it doesn't matter what "denomination" you are, whether you're Lutheran, Methodist, Anglican (Episcopal), or any other form of Christian, as long as you believe that Jesus is the Savior, then you're good to go.

As for signs or proof... well, as I've said, there is no solid "proof", as religion is based on faith, however if you study Bible prophecy, a lot of what is mentioned in the Bible as being the "end times" is starting to take shape... and of course there still has yet to be one skeptic who can prove the Bible definitively wrong in one area. A friend of mine runs a website, and while the two of us don't exactly see eye to eye as far as our beliefs go, he ardently studies prophecy and knows his stuff. His website can be found at http://alphanewsdaily.com/