G.H.
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« on: January 31, 2007, 05:54 » |
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Can anyone provide a link or tell me where I can find this story?
I've heard it mentioned lots of times and I'm interested in reading it.
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Dagdamor
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2007, 06:03 » |
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GeorgeHarrisonYou can find it on SR, in the Fanfiction section (just scroll it right a bit). Caution, it's quite violent in the beginning, but the rest makes up for that completely imho. Have fun reading it... especially after first two chapters. Maybe we also could discuss it a bit here, it would be nice. After reading LF the first time I had so many different thoughts... don't remember posting them anywhere. 
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When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix
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G.H.
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« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2007, 08:05 » |
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Finished reading it a couple days ago. Very moving, whoever wrote it deserves a gold star. 
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Dagdamor
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« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2007, 16:56 » |
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She does! The name is in the very beginning btw  Seriously, hmm... *feels a bit uneasy* George, knowing that you're a big Lisa fan, I'm interested to know your opinion about the book in a more detailed way. Not only to support this topic (even if I think it deserves  ), but I'm also really curious. I loved it to the degree I've translated it to another language... certain moments pushed me away a bit, certain moments made me re-read them again and again. What would you feel to say about LF?
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When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix
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Maggiecute
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« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2007, 17:03 » |
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I just loved that story I couldn't stop reading it and I agree that it should be made into a film!
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Lisa and Maggie Rock!
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Casper
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« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2007, 22:44 » |
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I'm not very good with book/story reviews... ...errr. The end. But, out of the 6 or 7 stories I've read in my life (not including text books or encyclopedias), including ' The Very Hungry Catapiller' and 'Pilot Bird And Gums', this was probably the second best thing I've ever read. Certainly a very worth while read. Just, epic. Very very entertaining read.
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Simpson-RealitiesDedicated to Realities “Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter and those who matter don’t mind” -Dr. Seuss.
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G.H.
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« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2007, 23:58 » |
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In a more detailed response to this outstanding story, I would say that in reading it I had my highs and lows. In certain situations I laughed, especially when Nurse Stanway tells Marge she needs to have blood drawn and Homer asks, "So... is there as much blood as there is in ER?" Too funny. Other parts, such as the beginning first pages where Lisa is suffering from the mental and physical sadism of Jack, really made me feel sorry for her and angry almost. Even though the Lisa Simpson that I know and love is a different person than Lisa Fitzgerald, they are so much alike and different that it gave me a very odd feeling when I read it. I didn't know what to think of after I finished reading, I looked at various pictures of her and felt like I was seeing two different people. I saw Lisa Simpson and one side of me remembered vegetarianism, sibling rivalry, and a tired love for her family, the Simpsons. Another part of me thought of sensitivity, three years of abuse, and an attempted suicide. I was torn for about a day, but after thinking, I realized the way it really was: it's a movie. And who plays the main character? Lisa Simpson. I've always enjoyed reading tremendously, and one thing that I enjoy when I read is an author's fearlessness; that is, to say, that they aren't afraid to include things that might be offensive to some (sorry, conservatives). My favorite author is Stephen King, and one of the reasons being that he is very direct with his writing. He doesn't need to clean it up, he shows it how it really is. The beginning of LF when Jack is yelling at Lisa, calling her a "dirty little bitch", a "fucking animal", are prime examples of this fearlessness. They provide the story with realism - a raging alcoholic doesn't clean up their speech in the heat of anger. And yes, these parts made me very sorry for her and very angry with Jack, and it's times like this, when reading unlocks emotions in you, that you know what you are reading is "good". Also: I apologize for the briefness of my previous reply  At that moment I was very busy and didn't have time to really say what I wanted to, and even when I do, it's difficult for me to form the right words. However, I did want to let you know that I had read and enjoyed it.
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G.H.
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« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2007, 22:16 » |
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You should consider pointing your computer in the following direction.
I'm not sure I take your full meaning.
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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2007, 22:56 » |
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She means if you enjoyed her first story, you should take a look at the rewrite-in-progress she's doing.
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Dagdamor
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« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2007, 00:36 » |
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jennyWelcome  I'm probably butting into a topic with the words I should keep inside, but... if you registered here anyway, why not create a topic dedicated to the new version of your story, even if that's WIP? I'd love to say something about LF2, but I'm not sure I'll have guts to re-register at GFWC. No offence... btw, I'm glad to know you didn't abandon the project, keep it up 
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When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix
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G.H.
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« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2007, 07:52 » |
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She means if you enjoyed her first story, you should take a look at the rewrite-in-progress she's doing.
Ahh... I see.  I'll have a look at that, and once again thanks for writing a great story.
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brakusaetsya
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« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2007, 23:21 » |
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I'm not sure that any member here would support this opinion, but I still want to ask: didn't any of you, people, feel sorry for Jack, not Lisa? I've re-read LF first version today and read rewritten Part I (it's a bit less violent), and I keep thinking this is very, very pessimistic novel, that make reader feel depressed. Of course, there are no excuses for Jack's behaviour, but still. I respect Jenny's gift to write very much, technically her novel is incredible, but I can't agree with opinion, that all've ended well, because Lisa suffered so much, but still struggled and found happiness finally. For me the lesson is "Yep, she is sweet little lucky angel, she found people, who wanted love her and take care of her, and this is pretty good for her, but most of kids, unwanted by anyone, growing up to be unhappy like Jack". He also struggled, maybe he even struggled harder than Lisa, because he found power to live and he tried to find happiness in new family, in his work, but all his attempts failed. I don't think this fic could have another ending to Jack. But I can't understand people who think that it's all Lisa's merit :/
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G.H.
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« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2007, 23:39 » |
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brakusaetsyaI felt sorry for Jack's predicament, but after his reactions, I started to feel less and less sympathy for him. True, it was sad that his wife cheated on him, and that he had a history of abuse as well, but I think this is necessary that what happened to him, happened to him (slow decline into alcoholism, loss of everything, eventual suicide). Although it's cruel and sad, this gives it a cold realism. Not like "And everyone lived happily ever after" - I don't like books or stories like that. No, that's not how things always work out. Let me give you an example of another author using this. **SPOILER ALERT!In Stephen King's novel "Wizard and Glass", 4th novel in the 7 novel Dark Tower series, he has the main character (Roland Deschain) explain to his companions the story of his first and only love, a lovely girl named Susan Delgado. Roland and Susan love each other very much, but circumstance separates them, and Roland does everything he can to keep Susan safe after she is wrongly convicted of a crime. Despite his best efforts, though, Susan Delgado is arrested and burned at the stake. This, people, is an example of the cold reality of our society. Not everything has a happy ending, and sappy stories that make things out to have such endings usually do not make their way into my top ten favorites. Anyway, these are just my thoughts on the situation and ultimate fate of Jack Fitzgerald.
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brakusaetsya
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« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2007, 00:01 » |
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GeorgeHarrisonThat's why King's novels scare me so much  I just can't understand 2 things: why Jenny have chosen such form as simpsons-fic for her sad confession and why everyone keep thinking that Lisa is kinda hero in this novel. Even more, I think main character here is Jack, not Lisa, and I'm not so happy that as I see in rewritten part, Jenny prefered to make a real hero from Lisa and give Jack just a small supporting villain role. It's kinda exploitation of public adoration of Lisa, I think :/ Ahem... Well, maybe it's just my personal jealousy again. Hope no one will be hurted with these messages.
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SimpReal
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« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2007, 08:44 » |
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I still didn't read the rewrite of LF (just the first paragraphs a lot of time ago but i should start over), but i think that the first impression is what burns the impront of a fic on the reader's mind. LF was one of the first "serious" fics i've read: it shocked me to no end, and imho it even helped in creating a "Lisa Simpson" cult. Reading Lisa fitzgerald, the first version of the novel, it was clear that Jack had almost NO redeeming features, except a little flashback that still didn't justify the hell he brought onto Lisa. On the other side, Lisa's character was written to deliberately tug on *every* heart string of the reader, leaving no feeling of pity and sadness untouched. When i've readed LF, i saw no heroes nor hangmans: i saw a realistic story that both saved the day by the means of feeligns of Love from a caring family and nurse and both gave what a drama novel usually gives. The good people wins, the bad people loses. On this aspect, i thought always LF was one of the best ever written because what it did, it did it great. One thing i don't understand though... why Jenny have chosen such form as simpsons-fic for her sad confession
Confession? 
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Did he open up his eyes? Did he try to touch my hand, Or is my mind playing tricks on me? Do you think he hears us cry? Does he understand We are here, by his side...
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Maggiecute
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« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2007, 08:56 » |
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Sorry for Jack? thats a tough one, I guess we could feel a little sorry for him after what he has been through though he should not take his anger out of others. I guess I did feel a little sorry for him but I felt more for poor Lisa.
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brakusaetsya
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« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2007, 13:12 » |
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SimpRealNot confession exactly, but kind of. Can't remember where I've read something about it, but I thought that this story is very much increased author's childhood memories, kinda therapy for herself... Maybe I've mistaken here. But it's a bit cruel to put little Lisa in such conditions, I'm really surprised her fans love this so much, especially this unfair suicide attempt... I just can't accept this is real Lisa - all Simpsons' characters written very well in LF, but she is different. Maybe, like George said about his first impression, it's a movie starring Lisa Simpson. It contains so much pure unnecessary cruelty... As for Jack: I can accuse Lisa's mother (I know she's dead, but she might think about his condition and her little daughter before fighting with him) and social services for not isolating little girl from him, but he is just gone crazy from all what happened in his life, so anyway I feel sorry for him. Well, now I think it's just my own perception problem, so excuse me if I said something bad for any member here. Must read books for kids and think twice before posting
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janglewolf
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« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2007, 19:21 » |
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Brakusaetsya, while you're entitled to your opinion, I really think that you are approaching this with some misconceptions and you are making some unfair allegations against the author. *POSSIBLE SPOILERS BELOW*I just can't understand 2 things: why Jenny have chosen such form as simpsons-fic for her sad confession and why everyone keep thinking that Lisa is kinda hero in this novel. Even more, I think main character here is Jack, not Lisa Well, number one, to the best of my knowledge, LF is entirely a work of fiction and not "therapy" for Jenny - I don't where you got that impression but as far as I know it isn't true. It does however have some grounding in reality, as the sort of abuse described in it (and worse) unfortunately does occur. Your point number two is a little more complicated and I think it relates to your original question of whether anyone feels sympathy for Jack, so I'll answer that question first. Personally, any sympathy that Jack's background would make me feel is completely destroyed by his treatment of Lisa. most of kids, unwanted by anyone, growing up to be unhappy like Jack". He also struggled, maybe he even struggled harder than Lisa, because he found power to live and he tried to find happiness in new family, in his work, but all his attempts failed. Yes, it's true that in real life, quite often the abused does indeed become the abuser but this isn't always the case and I cannot see it as any possible justification for the actions of Jack or anyone else like him. Yes he did try but his failure resulted in the murder of his wife and a level of neglect and brutality towards his daughter that would have ended up killing her too. I think that it's a testament to Jenny's writing that you do feel some sympathy for Jack but I don't. The people that I have real sympathy and indeed overwhelming respect for, are those that live through horrific abuse but are able to break the cycle and go on to become loving parents themselves. This is the case with Lisa in LF and along with her courage in facing Jack in court, and her courage as she builds a new life with the Simpsons, does make her a heroic character. Again, to Jenny's credit it's understated in a way - in fact the obvious hero of the book is Nurse Stanway whose efforts unite Lisa with the Simpson family and give her chance she needs. I'm not so happy that as I see in rewritten part, Jenny prefered to make a real hero from Lisa and give Jack just a small supporting villain role. It's kinda exploitation of public adoration of Lisa, I think :/ Are you saying that he's more of a villain in the re-written version? It isn't true. If you take another look at the re-written version, Jenny spends much more time developing his character than in the original. Because of this, I'd say the reader is likely to feel more sympathetic towards Jack than in the original. And exploitation? No. You may not like to see Lisa in this situation and I certainly didn't like to but to me it serves a purpose. We've all seen news reports about children being mistreated and although we feel revulsion, we are distant from the reality. For me, the story really brought home the horror of such a situation because here it was happening to a character that I was already familiar with and cared about. You may not be able to accept that it is the "real" Lisa in LF and because it is an alternative reality story and such an extreme situation, I can appreciate that point. However, in the story, Lisa's character is still there early on, despite being masked by the hoplessness of her situation so I always associated the Lisa in the story with Lisa in OFF - again, it's great writing by Jenny. One of the wonderful aspects of LF is to see Lisa emerge from her shell into the character we are all familiar with. That's why you are totally missing the point with this quote: I keep thinking this is very, very pessimistic novel, that make reader feel depressed. Yes it is very dark and depressing in the beginning but over-all it is very uplifting as Lisa succeeds in doing what her father failed to do and breaks the cycle of abuse. I'm really surprised her fans love this so much, especially this unfair suicide attempt... Well, I hope I've gone some way towards explaining why a Lisa fan can love this story. As for the suicide attempt, if you are suggesting that Jenny was just being manipulative - well it's no more manipulative than any other author who has written a dramatic, heartrending scene. In fact, it's a pivotal moment in the story because it brings the abuse to light and leads to Lisa's rescue and all that follows - devastating though it is to read, it is not gratuitous, it is vital.
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brakusaetsya
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« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2007, 19:51 » |
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janglewolfare those that live through horrific abuse but are able to break the cycle and go on to become loving parents themselves Lisa did almost nothing with her own, it's all merit of nurse and Simpsons family (especially Marge). Lisa in OFF could do it better. She got second chance and of course with all help of loving people she realised it. If such miracle happened with Jack when he was a child, of course he could broke this evil cycle. He tried, he just needed some support & love, and although Lisa is just a child and I wish no child in this world would be treated as Lisa Fitzgerald, Jack deserved some help too. Jenny spends much more time developing his character than in the original. And also more explaining, how much Lisa suffers not only from Jack, but almost without his flashbacks in his childhood. And in second version she is even more different from real Lisa, she is almost not struggling :/ Okay, probably it's just not my genre and I couldn't understand it properly :/ For me it looks so sad just because there were shown not so much Lisa's personal qualities that lead her to victory in life cycle, but just question of chances. Lisa was given a chance, Jack wasn't; she lived happily and he didn't, although they both were little innocent children some time ago. Yep, it's just life, you're right :/ I'm still childishly hoping that "all the horses will have a fun time" 
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Shadow Nait
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« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2007, 21:26 » |
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brakusaetsyaI like your theory that Jack could have such situation in his childhood like Lisa. It describes in some way his behavoiur. But I can't tell he causes such deep emotions like Lisa's situation did. If only author paid some more attention to his character we could appreciate the situation turn out with him. All this so freaky abnormal... From the my point of view I can declare he always tries to do in such way to make other people esteem him, to look manly you know. I think it's not a single strain of him. But I'm going to simply to repeat your words again.  Lisa's character not suits her "show-state" - you're completely right, I always catched myself on ideas that she looks much more... sensible (I know the word is awful concerning to her situation). She shows not characteristic traits for hers. But from another hand, understand, we can't know how could she changed when got appeared in such conditions. When not able to feeding emotionally from things she loves - playing sax, reading "smart" books, any intellectual hobbys. It's possible she would fall down into such sensual state. When nerves is tormented and your personality is almost dried by someone or something...  You become dullier...
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janglewolf
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« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2007, 23:17 » |
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Lisa did almost nothing with her own, it's all merit of nurse and Simpsons family (especially Marge). I can't agree with that. Even with that level of support, it would still take determination and courage to come to terms with having gone through a situation like that. As I mentioned earlier, facing Jack in court would also have taken extraordinary courage by Lisa. Lisa in OFF could do it better. Well, no she wouldn't have - not if she'd been through the same ordeal. I think Yggdrasill puts it rather well: When nerves is tormented and your personality is almost dried by someone or something... You become dullier... To me, the Lisa in the story is Lisa as we know her but she has been so completely broken by the physical and mental abuse that all her self-confidence is all gone and indeed has been replaced by a devastating self-loathing instilled in her by her father. For me it looks so sad just because there were shown not so much Lisa's personal qualities that lead her to victory in life cycle, but just question of chances. Look closely and I think you'll see that those qualities do play a part. In the early part of the story, it is Lisa's characteristic resourcefulness that enables her to survive for so long under those conditions. And while it may have been nice if she had saved herself from that situation, remember that she is a child whose self-esteem and confidence have been completely destroyed - it simply wouldn't have been realistic for Lisa to have saved herself by that stage. By the time she has become desperate enough to attempt suicide, she has become so numbed and conditioned by the abuse that she cannot even contemplate that there could be any other way out. And so yes, she is saved by chance, and sadly, this too is realistic. although Lisa is just a child and I wish no child in this world would be treated as Lisa Fitzgerald, Jack deserved some help too.
Lisa was given a chance, Jack wasn't; she lived happily and he didn't, although they both were little innocent children some time ago. This I do agree with...and of course I have the same sympathy for Jack as a child as I do for Lisa in the story. I guess I'm guilty of letting my outrage at Jack's treatment of Lisa obscure the reality of what he went through himself. That said, we all have the power to choose not to be ruled by our past, so for that reason, I'd still find it very hard to feel sympathy for Jack as an adult. Anyway, I think I'm getting way too deep on this...
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Dagdamor
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« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2007, 05:23 » |
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brakusaetsya"Lisa Fitzgerald" is not based on real events, at least I hope so. "Happy Families", however, are. The plots have much in common here and there, maybe that's what has confused you. I can understand your point about Lisa not doing much in the story... I also agree that "canonic" Lisa, Lisa from the show, would probably act different, that she would struggle up to her last breath. But LF is a fanfiction, the author has the right to picture her own version of Lisa. Descriptions, events, new characters... the complete unusualness of the story is what made me love it. Lisa is a victim in this story, not the "main character". About feeling sympathy towards Jack... I have to agree with Janglewolf here, sorry. The man had reasons to feel sorry for him, but he destroyed everything with his behavior in the beginning of the story. I don't feel anything good for him, he shouldn't release his anger on a child.  Let's hope that the revised version will be less cruel towards Lisa. If so, maybe I'll be able to feel sorry for him again. janglewolfAs I mentioned earlier, facing Jack in court would also have taken extraordinary courage by Lisa. Ugh... this is a very tough moment. If I remember correctly, Lisa was against being there, and did all she could to convince others just to forget about Jack and leave the things as they are. Only when Bart has reconvinced her, she agreed to testify in the court, kinda against her will. If he didn't do that, she wouldn't go.
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When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix
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brakusaetsya
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« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2007, 21:07 » |
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janglewolfI must agree with Dagdamor about scene in court. But... Well, in her conditions even her attempt to ask somebody to take her away from home counts as courage, too bad she wasn't able to try find a way to escape again and again. Of course, after 3 years of abuse she was too weak, but when it was at the beginning, maybe she could change something. If there was in Springfield, some neighbours sure could help her *sigh* DagdamorBut LF is a fanfiction, the author has the right to picture her own version of Lisa. Of course  And this is very well-written version, it just differs so much from mine 
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G.H.
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« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2007, 23:51 » |
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* GeorgeHarrison reads all replies in the past two days. * GeorgeHarrison 's eyes explode  I haven't read the rewritten version of LF yet, and I can't say much that wouldn't be just repeating myself. It is sad that Jack had to go through what he went through, but this is nullified by the fact that he chooses the path of darkness as opposed to the path of light; forgive my being so corny here, but in the end, your character is determined by your actions. You can't just use your own past as a reason to ruin someone else's life. Nobody is going to pity Jack just because of his past, not after what he's done to Lisa. As it is said in the end of the story, Lisa had the chance to repeat the cycle of abuse that her and Jack had been victims to, but she didn't... and Jack did. As for OFF-Lisa vs. Lisa Fitzgerald, like I said, there is a definite separation of the two. I don't know how OFF-Lisa would do under Lisa Fitzgerald's circumstances, it's very hard to tell. They come from different towns, different parents, overall different ways of life. Although it's hinted at in LF that Lisa Fitzgerald has the same intellectual qualities as OFF-Lisa, it's hard to say whether or not they are on the same level of IQ. Something tells me though that if Marge and the rest of the family left, and Homer turned into a Jack-type character, that OFF-Lisa would not sit by and idly let him destroy her life. She would go to the police, run away from home, anything, but she would not let him do this to her.
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aoife
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« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2007, 17:04 » |
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LF was never therapy for Jenny, nor is it based on her life. It's honestly one of the best fanfics I've ever read, and it touched a lot of people. It also inspired artwork galore. It is a very sad story, however there is no gratuitous violence. Sometimes great stories, or novels can be emotionally hard to read. That doesn't take away from their brilliance. As for LF being different than the Lisa we are used to on the show, that's fanfic for ya sometimes. Jenny did something completely original, and it worked. This story has held up over a few years now, people are still loving it, and discovering it for the first time. That's how I see LF.
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CalculatedChaos
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« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2008, 05:41 » |
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So I just 'marathoned' my way through this story for the first time. I wasn't disappointed. To Jenny, the author, regardless of your possible personal ties to the plot, I say BRAVO! I am usually shrewd with books that I read and this is the first one I haven't been able to put down in years. Your characterization and suspense building skills are superb.
On a side note: the scenes of Lisa in the hospital actually had me in tears at parts. Some of joy and some of saddness. Good job! Not since the end of
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o_o' Dang... stupid PSP... Load, you unwieldy behemoth!
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Dagdamor
Lisahugger
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« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2008, 11:46 » |
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CalculatedChaosSomething tells me that there should be a next part of your review somewhere  I'm not sure if Jenny still visits this forum and reads this; but me and others surely do.
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When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix
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CargoOfDarkness
In Love With Luayne
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« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2008, 19:25 » |
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... Hehe... truely... I am the only one here and maybe everywhere in the internet who thinks even after reading it a second time that this script is not a good novel and even a trivial written one that you can hardly digest...  ...
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"Is that alright? Give my gun away when it's loaded Is that alright? If u don't shoot it how am I supposed to hold it Is that alright with you?"
"...No!"
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CalculatedChaos
Voice for the unheard.
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Expect the unexpected...
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« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2008, 22:22 » |
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Orson Scott Card's 'Lost Boys' has a story moved me that much. LF reminds me strongly of 'A Child Called It', and if you haven't read it, for shame. That book strikes the same chords as LF, though the abuse suffered by David Peltzer (who wrote the trilogy) is a documented case of one of worst occurances ever.  Note: Sorry, my wifi crapped out last night so I had to wait till after work to finish.
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o_o' Dang... stupid PSP... Load, you unwieldy behemoth!
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Maléfix
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« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2008, 01:09 » |
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I can't find the rewritten story...
must. keep. going. [...] no. you. shut. up.
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Maléfix Omochao Violantis
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Casper
Sugarcube
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A world without string...?! Is CHAOS!!
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« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2008, 01:43 » |
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I read both Lisa Fitzgerald and 'A Child Called It' and, I agree that they are similar and both good for the same reasons. Makes it even more amazing that they where both writen completely independenty!
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