dantheman40k
So, everyone whose opinion doesn't match yours, has "very strange sense of humor" now?
Okay, explain me if you can. What so gross was in that scene and why it was unbearable to look at.
I hope you understand the difference between plain wrong things (i.e. hurting someone, killing someone, mocking someone badly etc) and the things, perception of which depends on your own personal measures.
Right now I see only one point from you: you didn't like that scene personally, so everyone who did are idiots.

[admin mode on]

Guys, please refrain from quoting the whole message of the previous poster for the sake of just adding a short unreasoned phrase. Nobody needs posts like that here; we even have a note about that in the Forum Rules.
Please understand, I don't want this place to turn to another KLS; I'm sure Marco doesn't want it as well. Addressed both to dantheman40k and thatmargesimpsonfan.

[admin mode off]

Maybe my car aciedent quip was OTT. I take it back, when ever I see something that prortays Lisa in an unflattering light I go nuts. I have a lot of respect for the character, so seeing her....degraded like that just made me cringe. And no, I dont think you are stupid.

dantheman40k
Accepted I hope you will be more tolerant to the others' opinions next time.
I will try to explain my personal position about "Lisa wallowing in the cake" moment, and it's up to you whether to agree or to disagree. Who knows, maybe I will even convince you in something, and you will be able to accept such moments in the show more light-heartedly... I don't expect you to enjoy them like I do, but at least your reaction could be not so harsh.

Anyway, like I said before, there was nothing too bad/wrong in that moment. I even liked it, because it was very natural for everyone on Lisa's place. Lisa did only one "stupid" thing in that episode: listened to Sherri/Terri's mocking and took it too close to her heart. But things like that are always hard to ignore - especially if you're little kid... you have to be very selfish person to ignore such things directed towards you, and Lisa is not.

So she believed Sherri and Terri and put herself on a diet... dunno if that decision was good or bad, but she did her best to follow it. IIRC, she ate almost nothing for several days (dunno where Marge looked)! It's not an easy thing to do, and I can only adore her will-power. But when you don't eat for days, when you hear another portion of mocking every day in school, when your mind don't have enough energy to make good decisions, you became obsessed with the idea, and Lisa fell a victim to her diet. In the real life, she'd have only two possible ways: to break the diet immediately or to land in the hospital.

Fortunately, she decided to check her own strength. I cannot judge what exactly happened to her during that scene; I'm not a psychologist. But it looked like a temporary craziness; Lisa couldn't control herself. And it was great! All blocks she built in her mind, broke that moment, she enjoyed eating that cake after the days of starving, she immediately lost her obsession and went back to normality. Heck, I can swear that moment she was happy like never before. How that could be bad? Lisa cured herself.

Another very interesting moment in that scene was when Nelson entered the kitchen and talked to Lisa. He reacted very tolerant and calmly to Lisa's actions, that was a nice thing for him to do. He even helped Lisa afterwards... and did it well, because there was the only one possible way to stop the mockers, and Nelson has found it on the fly.

All in all, that moment was very complex and interesting to me. It can look gross and unbearable at first sight, but if you feel for Lisa and try to understand her behavior, you see that all happened there was very natural. Again, that's my personal opinion.

Yes but this episode took it to the extreme.I mean a restraining order? Come on! Compare this to Duffless and you see the difference. Lisa's revenge on Bart in Duffless was more balanced and within the boundaries of believeability as opposed to getting a restraining order on him.
 
You can say that about any God-awful gaffes the show has pulled in the past, The Principal and the Pauper, Ned being sixty, jockey elves, panda rape, Maude dieing ect.
 
I'm sorry, I know your supposed to respect other people's opinons but I think you have your hand firmly grasped on the wrong end of the stick about Lisa. If you dont understand the analogy, I mean you dont understand Lisa at all, either that or you have low tolorance thresh hold for craptacular episodes.

Please dont take this the wrong way, I'm sure youre a nice guy and all but your opinions on Lisa Simpson leave much to be desired.

dantheman40k

Restraining order is something to prevent the cruelty, not to raise it even more. It's a law act. What so wrong in that? Lisa had all reasons to call for law in that episode (just remember the beginning of it), I agree that the method was unusual, but like janglewolf said, comparing to other things happened in the show throughout these years, it wasn't that significant. Really, you're acting like you was restrained from Lisa, not Bart.

Apparently you have no idea what the real cruelty is... read "Lisa Fitzgerald" story, and compare Jack's behavior there with Lisa's one in the "Can't See My Sister" episode. Also compare that episode with the "My Sister, My Sitter". One of the best Simpsons epsodes, to my opinion. But the level of brutality was even higher there! At least Bart was never traumatized in the "Clear Day" episode you hate so much.


Well, Homer and panda scene was bad indeed. (We didn't see it fully though, so I guess we cannot say for sure that Homer was raped... so even the badness of that episode can be disputed, but I don't want to discuss it. ) The same with Maude's death; that was unnecessary, and plain cruel. But... everything else you mentioned? Come on. I have nothing even against the "Principal And The Pauper", because it still was interesting to see, had unusual idea, and in the end, it changed nothing. Yes, we know now that Agness and Skinner aren't relatives - so what? Nothing changed in their lives, and the same with our lives, I guess. I fail to understand how anyone can hate this episode only because it made such a little change to the show's flow in general.


Hm... I wonder why you created this topic in the first place, if you're telling things like that to the first person whose opinion doesn't match yours. Did you expect everyone to agree with you? I hope not. It's perfectly fine when people have different opinions, especially on public forums. Remember, when many people have exactly the same opinion, that usually means that most of them cannot think by themselves and just repeat someone else's words. I believe this forum is not the case.

Anyway, if you're saying that I don't understand Lisa at all, explain why; without any explanation your words aren't too believable and look like an unreasoned insult. What so wrong in my perceptions towards Lisa in particular, or the show in general? Can you explain? I'd say the opposite: if watching the show nowadays makes you suffer so much, and the same episodes make me like them and watch again, I'd say my view makes more sense. I still enjoy watching the show, and there's nothing bad or wrong in that.

Over a decades worth of character development chucked out the window for the sake of a cray-zay storyline! Thats whats wrong with that.
 
Ok forget the RO. Lisa's treatment of Bart in that episode was not justified, forcing him to live in the back yard, poking him with a stick. I know you like Lisa and all but some of your comments are, to be frank, bordering on fanboyishness.




While I adored L-Fitz we arnt talking about fanfiction here. The way Lisa was treated in L-Fitz went above and beyond anything that the show has ever done. But L-Fitz, is not canon, hell, its set in an alternate reality!
 
 Did Lisa break Bart's arm? No. Did she through him down the stairs?No. If I recall, she pushed Bart's unconcious body in a weel barrow several miles to the hospital. No cruelty there on Lisa's part.



Altering the dynamic of a character for a !Kewl!Story! is a bad thing and even the writers, to their credit, admitted that the episode was a mistake.



Oh stop acting the victim, this is a debate, people with opposing views explaining why they feel the way they do. Dont winge and try and act like I'm victimizing you just because I am countering your opinion.



No. I expected a nice, friendley debate.

 
I think this forum has some of the most eloquent and thoughful people in the Simpsons Community.




[qoute]Anyway, if you're saying that I don't understand Lisa at all, explain why; without any explanation your words aren't too believable and look like an unreasoned insult.[/quote]

What it boils down to is this: You either dont understand Lisa or you have a liberal attitude towards character consistency.

 
More acting the victim. Nowhere did I say you were wrong, I said, in no uncertain words that I dont agree with you. There is a difference.