Lisa, the Simpson!
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Author Topic: Questions to all the pencil artists here  (Read 447 times)
Jimmy
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« on: August 04, 2008, 22:31 »

First off my sincere apologies for not posting here in like forever. Most of you have probably already forgotten me anyway Tongue
I have too many reasons for not posting so Im not going to bother boring you with the details.

Anyway my questions are (And I warn you some are a bit retarded, what can I say, I cant draw Tongue):

1: How much time do you reckon you spend on average on a drawing that by your standards you think is good

2: How many (if any) times do you retrace over the drawing to get it looking nice.

3: Do your mistakes bother you or do you continue regardless

4: What kind of pencils do you use to draw with e.g. the thickness/hardness of lead

And last but not least

5: How do you draw circles *Jimmy hides from laughter*

Basically what I'm asking is how do you go about making your drawings.

[rant] Ive recently started drawing Simpsons again and every time I start a new drawing, I either make mistakes or I draw something that doesn't look right to me or I get all the sizes wrong with the construction lines/shapes and circles give me nightmares. I can't draw Simpsons with open mouths, and as always Lisa's hair is so annoying.

Each time I rub out the paper slowly starts to become coarse and eventually rips and Im wondering if this is just my lack of understanding of all the angles and proportions of the characters, or if everyone makes these mistakes and re traces over them on a new sheet of paper to get them right or if I need a new eraser Tongue

And I usually end up giving up and scrapping my drawings... Maybe im just not cut out to draw The Simpsons Sad ... [/rant]

Any answer is appreciated as are little tutorials/helpful links. Thanks for reading this
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CalculatedChaos
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« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2008, 22:37 »

I used to draw, and my trick was practicing the same shapes (ideas) over and over. It never worked, but then again, that's probably why I turned to writing...

Tongue

Good luck!
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« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2008, 22:48 »

1. Hours and hours. I'm not fast by any stretch.
2. as many as necessary. I often do a rough 'thumbnail' sized sketch in the top corner of the paper to figure out where the construction lines will go, then try the proper thing. This may take a couple of goes. Once I'm mostly happy I ink it, then fix the bits I've inked incorrectly after scanning.
3. they bother me. it's amazing what you can do in paintshop/photoshop though. I've changed the perspective points, foreshortened limbs, resized heads, and various other things.
4. usually a 2B mechanical pencil.
5. i just rough circles in. try drawing one, then rotate the page slowly through 360 degrees. you'll be amazed how something which looks round at one angle can be clearly egg shaped at another.

as for tracing, i have in the past when a picture has been irretrievably scribbly, taken a  sheet of tracing paper, traced the picture, flipped the tracing paper over onto a clean sheet of paper, then traced it again on the reverse side pressing the nib firmly down. Once done, take the tracing paper away, and you'll have a ghost-like mirror image on the clean sheet which you can start working on again.

You may aslo need a new rubber. I use the mars plastic ones. ones from art shops are better. small hard ones which just smudge stuff are no use at all.
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Beb
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« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2008, 23:14 »

Ooh, good topic! I haven't done much pencil-shading for ages, but I'll have a go...


Quote
1: How much time do you reckon you spend on average on a drawing that by your standards you think is good

It really varies depending on how complicated the picture is, and how used you are to drawing that particular thing. Before I put the last little bits on a picture I try and leave it for a few hours or a day, then come back and look for mistakes.


Quote
2: How many (if any) times do you retrace over the drawing to get it looking nice.

If a sketch is giving me problems I do the same thing Pat mentioned, and draw a tiny version to figure out what goes where. This is good for poses etc. As for outlining, as I remember I did it very, very slowly with a good rubber to hand.  Gigi


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3: Do your mistakes bother you or do you continue regardless

I suppose it depends on the stage the picture's at. Spotting a major mistake right at the end is awful, but if it's still in the sketchy stage it can usually be worked out. Of course, these days there's always the magic of Photoshop if things get really bad...


Quote
4: What kind of pencils do you use to draw with e.g. the thickness/hardness of lead

Mechanical pencils (not sure how hard) for sketching and possibly outlining -- they don't need sharpening and give a nice thin line, and you don't end up with fingerprints everywhere. For shading, anything above a 2B -- the softer the lead, the darker the shading.


Quote
5: How do you draw circles *Jimmy hides from laughter*

Usually, I draw in a circle and keep going round 'til it looks fairly even. If you need really accurate circles it's probably best to use a compass.


Useful Simpson-drawing stuff can be found in SFFC's Creative Pencil, including a few reference sheets from a Simpsons animator (Morpheus306).


One more thing: I'm not sure how many people already do this, but it's been invaluable to me ever since I started drawing. At regular intervals, turn your paper around and hold it up to the light so you see a mirror image of your drawing. You'll see it the way a new viewer would, and mistakes are much more likely to leap out.
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« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2008, 23:18 »

1. My favurate pictures of mine include backgrounds, so with that in mind anything between 2 and 4 hours, with breaks inbetween ofcourse.

2. Just the once, unless I'm colouring it on computer, then I have to retrace the lines on a seperate layer. But that doesnt count for pencil only sketch's, so just once.

3. Hmm... depends on the general 'importance' of the picture in my head. If I'm making too many mistakes, I'll rough sketch what I want on a seperate peice of paper several times before I'm happy to continue on the original paper. I dont like rubbing out because of the mess it usualy leaves, so mistakes do bother me.

4. Whatever I can find Tongue HB works fine without any shading, but if your really going for gold in the perspective shading department, 2B gives great depth.

5. Freehand, just guess work really. If it doesnt look right, rub out and try again. I try to just press lightly so that the rub out leaves no trace but, if I then go around a perfect circle thats lightly traced and make a mistake, I'm screwed either way! Big Grin

In relation to number 5, I draw characters freehand without construction lines. Means that my work with perspective looks fairly poor, but means less rub outs.


My advice is just, practice by traceing frame grabs of the show or use references while drawing. Your drawings from imagination can be 'rewards' after practicing. And always, look at whats good about your drawings, not whats bad. Art is better with high moral. Smile



(Nice advice also Beb, never tried that Tongue)
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Jimmy
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« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2008, 23:32 »

Thanks for all the replys. Greatly appreciated and they have helped me spot a few problems in my drawing equipment/abilities

I think I know what my problems are.

I think its because I rush my drawings and I usually pick difficult angles for my drawings. I also make my drawings to small so its harder to add the details in. Im also using a 6H/5H pencil so I think this is making it harder for me to draw nice light construction lines since 6H I think is softer. I usually finish a drawing an about 30 minutes, and my mistakes still bother me but I dont want to rub out incase I do more damage than good. Yeh I think I need new rubbers/pencils, a bit more patience and I need to start drawing bigger.

Beb that link you gave me was very handy, thank you Smile
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CargoOfDarkness
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« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2008, 11:32 »

1: How much time do you reckon you spend on average on a drawing that by your standards you think is good?
Actually, a piece of work can have the state of never finished - I often draw a picture like for 10 hours, call it finish than and put it to my other drawings. Some years later, I take the same drawing and do it again. You would say I start a new work - but I guess more it is a new start of the same piece of art - because motive and technique is the same.
But I mostly spend 6 hours for drawings with a person on it, 10 hours for the same with backround or a cubble of characters and 16 hours for a piece with a cubble of characters, backround and mostly more details.

2: How many (if any) times do you retrace over the drawing to get it looking nice?
First I take a paper and scribble without coordination - than I take a second paper and copy the outlines clean on this paper - than I scan the picture and color it on my PC - or I copy the outlines again with ink and than I shade / color the picture.

3: Do your mistakes bother you or do you continue regardless
Mistakes on the scribble paper I correct emideatly - later I never notice mistakes often, cause I am so into drawing, almost like dreaming.

4: What kind of pencils do you use to draw with e.g. the thickness/hardness of lead
Mostly Grafic-Tablet.
What is an mechanical pencil? Is it something like a pencil just very thin - called a "Fallminenschreiber" in German?!? I use those one, too!

5: How do you draw circles *Jimmy hides from laughter*
I draw one half circle, turn around the paper and draw the other half. It?s flowing - I got it into.
But I don?t circle around till it is a circle - that is crazy - you get broad lines than!  Big Grin
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« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2008, 13:46 »

 
Anyway my questions are (And I warn you some are a bit retarded, what can I say, I cant draw Tongue):
Pshah, anyone can draw as much as anyone can write. Well, almost. Smile If the matter is how good or how bad, it's very subective and a lot of parameters are added to the final resolution wether you "can" or "cannot" draw.
In few words, you must ask yourself a couple things, like... doy ou want to learn or be able to "copy" some other artist or style? Or do yo uwant to use your own?
Do you feel more like a crafty, detailed artist or an animator, simple sketches with less lines for the best effect? or, if you dont know how to answer, i guess yo ushould just see where your heart goes Tongue
Anyway for the questions.

Quote
1: How much time do you reckon you spend on average on a drawing that by your standards you think is good
Well i measure my level of "good" basing on the tiem i spent on the picture. I cna be happy with a 10 minutes scribble, although it happens rarely. But more realistically, i'd say that a good penciled picture with a hint of background, more than one character and maybe soem hard perspective takes me from 6 to 10 hours to pencil in.
The fact is, i dont always completely pencil in a picture, so i can "stop" the pencil work sooner, i'll explain later.
 
Quote
2: How many (if any) times do you retrace over the drawing to get it looking nice.
I do all my retracing in Photoshop using an optical tablet. Usually, when i’m finished with a pencil sketch, i don’t touch it any further, and do all necessary retouching and retracing in digital way.
Depends on the complexity of the picture, but i retrace freehand a couple of times (one for bigger lines, one for more thin details), and then i trace one final time using vectors, so to lay down the inks for the coloring.
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3: Do your mistakes bother you or do you continue regardless
They are my hell, and the main reason why i almost stopped drawing. I’m a perfectionist and one simple mistake, if it gets me while i am a bad mood, can bring me to destroy a pic that would be overall good. I just cannot accept them, even though i know they’re unevitable. Sometimes i manage to jsut let the picture alone for a day or so and next day... i hate it even more and i can it Tongue
I’m very eas to please, but when it comes to my stuff... :\ but it’s wrong, very wrong.
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4: What kind of pencils do you use to draw with e.g. the thickness/hardness of lead
Well i dont give much importance to that. My favourite is mechanical HB 0.5, but i use also mechanical 4H 0.7 for constructions and wodden 2B for some shading and or heavy lines. but 90% is HB.
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5: How do you draw circles *Jimmy hides from laughter*
I stay as light as i can on the pencil (better if it is a 2H or more) and do many quick circles without ever lifting the pencil from the sheet. after 6-10 circles, the “interpolation” of all those lines produces a fairly good circle, that i can trace with a bit more heavy hand.
mostly though it’s a matter of practice. when i’m bored or waiting for inspiration for a pic i just draw circles all over a scrap sheet. After years of drawing, sometimes i can even do a good circle in just two passes. Ah, if only the Simpsons were just circles Tongue

Quote
[rant] Ive recently started drawing Simpsons again and every time I start a new drawing, I either make mistakes or I draw something that doesn't look right to me or I get all the sizes wrong with the construction lines/shapes and circles give me nightmares. I can't draw Simpsons with open mouths, and as always Lisa's hair is so annoying.
if you want to use construction, then start from the bases and draw EVERY construction line that  you can use. compare lenghts, draw skeletons, draw circles for everycing, cylinder for arms and so on. The picture will be incredibly crowded and possibly impossible to understand what’s going on, but with time and practice, you will be needing less and less “construction aides”, and in the end you’ll just use a couple or three plus a couple of lines for movement.
Sizes wrong, it’s a matter of learning, don’t be afraid to learn “dissecting” other artist’s picture. find one that comes close to your idea of good proportions, or better, an official one. printi it, or open it up in photoshop, and try to guess the construction lines drawing them over the character. then take another sheet and draw construction first, trying to replicate the character.
Choose simple poses at first, characters standing and so on. Don’t get perspective involved.

The mouths are easy, once you’ve learned to think about them in 3D, they give sense of depth to the entire head: evne here i suggest you to look at a lot of official pics and see how it goes.
Lisa’s hair is an acquired taste Tongue i made a tutorial once about it, but it was quite complex.
Quote
Each time I rub out the paper slowly starts to become coarse and eventually rips and Im wondering if this is just my lack of understanding of all the angles and proportions of the characters, or if everyone makes these mistakes and re traces over them on a new sheet of paper to get them right or if I need a new eraser Tongue
It’s a bit of everything. Kneadable easers are good to clean out light sketches, but get good hardy white eraser for the more “rubbery” pencil. Avoid at al lcosts to rub the sheet with the side of your hand... the lightest sweat can make the pencil humid and hell to erase, when you won’t smudge it all over.
As for retracing, the method of transparent sheet is good, but i prefer to do it with optical tablet. When imho a paper sketch reaches the level where i did everything and any more line-erasing would make it more messy, i stop, scan, and work on it digitally.
Of course you need an optic tablet for this. They’re not too expensive anymore and if you really want to learn to draw imo it’s a very handy tool. If you want to get one, get Wacom, dont bother with cheaper brands, they usually have poor sensibility and they need batteries that increase the weight and off balanceness of the pencil.
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And I usually end up giving up and scrapping my drawings... Maybe im just not cut out to draw The Simpsons Sad ... [/rant]
Don’t throw them away.. put them away. You never know Tongue
Quote
Any answer is appreciated as are little tutorials/helpful links. Thanks for reading this
Can’t search for any at the moment, but when i’ll be home i’ll ee what i can dig up. Smile
Practice, practice!
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« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2008, 17:13 »

4: What kind of pencils do you use to draw with e.g. the thickness/hardness of lead
Mostly Grafic-Tablet.
What is an mechanical pencil? Is it something like a pencil just very thin - called a "Fallminenschreiber" in German?!? I use those one, too!

Yes, those are the ones he meant. Smile
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