Syke
That's exactly my point. People would not believe even if they were given proof. You're actually the second member on this forum to admit that even if there was definite proof of God, you wouldn't believe.

And I've heard this "If God is really God, why do bad things happen?" too many times from too many people. Unfortunately, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

I'm not even gonna touch this discussion*. I'm posting simply to say, Syke, if you haven't already read it, set yourself some cash aside this xmas and pick up a copy of The God Delusion. It's basically just your previous post in a bit more depth, mixed in with various random rants - hardly the greatest piece of literature ever, but entertaining and refershing if you're already of this mindset .


*religion has been discussed for millenia with no concensus, so to try and sort it out on an internet message board is pretty much impossible and just a big argument waiting to happen imho.

Syke
Not at all, you haven't offended me. I'm used to these kind of rantings from confused and frustrated nonbelievers. I'm not calling you a sinner; I don't have to. You already are one. As am I. The entire human race are a bunch of filthy sinners, that's why we need Christ. I don't know what the whole bit about "swinging between your nipples" is supposed to accomplish, but if you understood anything about the Bible, you'd know that the cross represents the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. He died because we were sinners. Because God needed something to bridge the gap between himself and those who had fallen from grace. Namely, us.

As for if God created Earth, who created Mars? Well, that's an easy one. If you read the verse it says "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth". Heavens no doubt meaning all the other planets and celestial bodies.

The most common misconception about Christianity is that if you're a bad person, you go to Hell, and if you're a good person, you go to Heaven. No. It's not even THAT hard to get into Heaven. All it takes is an understanding of the Gospel of Christ (John 3:16), and an acceptance of the fact that you're a sinner and need Christ to save you. Once you understand and believe that... well, you're good to go. My statement "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions" basically was a way of saying that even good people who mean well end up in Hell, if they don't believe.

As for "brainwashing"... I'm sure this means you're going after evangelists. Well, the next time you get angry and criticize the person trying to tell you the Gospel, keep in mind that they're doing it for you own good, not theirs. Personally I don't hound someone until they believe. As was discussed briefly earlier in this thread, I believe this is another misconception created by the media. No... I tried that once, and realized that no matter how hard you beat your fists on their wall, the only person who can knock it down is the Lord Himself. I give them the Gospel, and let it run its course.

D.B.
Of course religion is the most discussed-to-death topic on the internet and elsewhere. And of course it'll never go anywhere. People cannot completely prove God's existence, nor can they completely disprove it. However, it's still thought-provoking conversation, as long as we don't let it slip to the level of argument. Which, I'm proud to say, I haven't seen in this thread yet. Do I expect any support here? No. I don't expect to get through to anybody. It seems 95% of this forum's active members are firm atheists. So, Syke, on this forum at least, I'm the one who's outgunned.

About the book... heh, well, all it looks like to me is a bunch of uncertain atheists trying to comfort each other into a state of comfortable denial. I've often called atheism the "refuge of the blissfully ignorant and flat-earthers alike". Sorry if that offends anyone, but that's just the way I see it. Atheists mock Christians for wanting to believe that there is some kind of afterlife. Well, I find that it can easily be reversed to atheists simply wanting to not believe that there is some kind of afterlife. The thought that they might actually be judged for the choices they make in this life... scares them.

SimpReal
I don't think it really should be split to another topic, more so just renamed.

As for can't bring anything good, what do you mean? It's just another topic for discussion. As long as members are willing to keep it civil, why not discuss it? It won't go anywhere, sure, but in all honesty, does anything we ever discuss on this forum go anywhere?

Dagdamor
Um... okay Serge, but uh, people often use the term "heavens" to simply mean the stars and the universe we see overhead at night. I know what Mars was named after, but it was always there. Even if it didn't have a name, it was still there.