Nope, it didnt proove he lied. At least about his first shot.

It prooved that after the first shot was fired (which he may have been blinded), Martin followed the burglars and shot them when he  could see. They where shot as they stumbled out of the window so... unless they where taking a walk on the edge of their window, its clear they where burglars. Which they admited to being anyway.

And I believe, robbers have lesser minds than you or me. But, if you had a flashlight in a dark room, and heard something to your left... why would you look left if you cant see anything? You'd point your flashlight.

He is a hero to me. He didnt just shoot two burglars. He made an impression that if the police arnt going to help, then he'd stand is own ground. Which I think is justified.

GeorgeHarrison
When did I say this? What I said was
and I was replying to your phrase

See the difference? And don't claim a murder "self defence". Once again, those robbers didn't threaten Martin's life. He wasn't defending himself, he was defending his house and money. That's a different problem and shouldn't be solved with rifles IMHO.

I'd say those are side effects of teaching them a lesson. But I would, ofcourse. This is something we may never agree with, but I can see where your coming from. Its just something I'd never agree with.


I had a thought about this whole thing on my way home from college. It seems that laws, and regulations enforced by government are designed to be read, to make it easy to see whether people are innocent or guilty. Tony Martin was guilty of murder, theres no denying that. But whether he should be punished was the definitive argument.
These days, Law's are almost designed so that a computer could understand if your guilty or innocent. There is no human factor, no common sence behind modern law. For example:

Theft + Breaking and Entering + Tresspassing - Murder = 0 = Free to go

or

Theft + Breaking and Entering + Tresspassing - Murder = Life Sentance

It shouldnt be looked at like this. All cases are different, and should be evaluated like individual events.

I honestly think that religeon is the route to evil. I dont wish to sound malitious, but I believe it to be true. I will never join the army. Even if my country was invaded and it was mandatory. I would merely protect those who mean something to me, as that is the only thing worth protecting in the long run. War is pointless. Ill finish with this statement from a Reggae track I heard once - ''If a war is holy, what does unholy mean?''

~Syke

I am merely pointing out my views in an immortal arguement. If there was no religeon, there would be followings, if not that, then gatherings, if not that them most probably dictatorship. The world is continually never going to be a nice, safe place. I dont think any views are relevant in this arguement, I merely think that there are truly stupid people out there who believe anything told to them, especially by the word of their gods. There are those who take religeon too far, entire countries engulfed by this morosity, and its abismal. For a recent example - Mohammed the Teddy... WTF, does this mean if a six year old boy called mohammed walked into their country he would be crucified for no reason? For what Blasphemy. Bollocks. She should never have been arrested for that. I respect peoples rights to believe such pish, but that was one step too far in my opinion, believe what you want people, just for your sakes remember who you are. Dont let it possess you, otherwise, the true meaning of life is broken. The mere fact that we live is because of some fluke or miriacle, so lets enjoy it! While it lasts, war is pointless, arguing is pointless (even if sometimes I feel it nessessary) and religeon in my opinion is a waste of the time we have been given to enjoy our liberties of life. If you believe something, preach all you want, I wont listen. Ill end this time with a statement from the immortal George Carlin -

''Thou shalt keep thine religeon to thine self.''

(PS - I know I seem angry... Well I am a tad, but if I have hurt anyones feelings, I appologise unreservedley. I speak only what I believe, and do not wish to be a social muppet. Im just not religeous and cant see a reason to believe in one is all Im saying, not that I am in any way shape or form like a fascist blogger of anti-freedom.)

~Syke

Holy war is a good excuse to get something done. The Crusades, Muslim jihad, etc. It's a way of brainwashing people into being soldiers for a corrupt human leader, such as the pope or a caliph. Well, The Crusades violated one of the Ten Commandments ("Thou shalt not kill") so basically, they were wrong and we admit it. People just thought a lot differently back then...

Syke, you certainly do seem angry. And if you don't know this already, I am a Christian. You're free to believe religion is a load of bollocks. However, I find that most people who claim to be atheists or simply non-religious, who argue zealously against religion, seem to have some sort of conflict with God. Anger at Him. Ever seen Signs? Yeah.

Lizard_queen, you're right about focusing on the extremists. Most people think that every Christian out there is a homophobic, ignorant, brainwashed redneck, and that every Muslim is a fanatical, suicide-bombing zealot. When this is far from the truth.

About using the expression "holier than thou"... ehh... you just have to understand, in English, that's just a saying we use. It doesn't mean anything literally really, I'm not implying that you think you have some divine right over us Sorry if it was misinterpreted though, there are a lot of confusing figures of speech in English that can appear very nonsensical to people who didn't learn English as their first language.

Lizard Queen - Well yeah, I get the idea that for many its a possitive thing, and that it is unfair to morally strip people of religeon because its different. That is wrong, and as for the homosexuality thing, I have many gay friends who are too scared to pass a church for what could happen to them. Religeon is a good thing in the right hands, but when one or two people get together and wrong their faith, mis-interpret their stories and beliefs and cause havoc... Makes me angry is all. If anything, Im not even athiest, as to not group myself with anyone who will then take athiest views and greatly distort them too. I am simply Liam, and Im alive to have a good time ^^, simple as. However I will say this... Have you ever seen a violent buddhist? Think about it. Smart people the Buddhists.

GeorgeHarrison - I honestly dont have anything against any relieon, sorry if it sounded that way. Like Lizard Queen says, its the people who mis-use it. I mean even if they werent around, I still wouldnt have a religeon. But the only reason for that is the fact that the only evidence is a book of stories. The only way I will believe god is there is if it finally shows its face, or simply appears, or performs a 'proper' miriacle, or strikes me down when I blaspheme, (sorry I do, Force of habit) but of course God cannot be tempted, so we have to wait for it to choose a time... yeah... This is why I dont believe in anything really... If I had to group myself though, I would probably say 'calm nihilist'. But thats not really true.

Simpreal - Now then, you appear to have hit the nail on the head here. Twice in fact. I also see religeon as a powerful tool, more powerful than say, that 50 megaton nuke that someone has. In my opinion, wrong use of religeon and war go hand in hand, and due to the extreme power of religeous views and people adding the number of morale religeouse folk to the amount of extremists, and thinking they outnumber the world, then it will NEVER change.
And yes, I also agree that this is not the topic for this thread, and appologise to whoever started it, not only that, but I do think that terrorism is too big a problem (or at least is made to look like a 'massive global crisis') for any one country. In my honest opinion, war should not have happened and terrorists I believe should blow themselves up, only out of harms way, so that  not many are hurt as badly. Many are a bunch of sociopathic sellouts who can be rounded up with a suspended investigation, but a few organisations should be attacked, not with military force, but through people merely voicing the fact that ALL terrorists are frigging imbeciles who have no right to even live on this planet let alone breathe the air that god may, or may not have given us, and go learn to freaking read or something, because they are all dumb as hell.

~Syke