Lisa, the Simpson!
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Author Topic: Lisa's Flaws  (Read 4085 times)
dantheman40k
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« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2007, 14:27 »

That'd be boring though. Wink
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G.H.
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« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2007, 17:30 »

That'd be boring though. Wink

What would be? A couple trying to work out their differences so that love can prevail?
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Look at that hand, lying there
The room is dark, she shows no fear
I'm lying still, my eyes are wide
My heart is pumping, I'm still alive

I'm still awake against my will
What will it ever take
To still this burning in me?
janglewolf
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« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2007, 18:10 »

Well to be fair, the theme of that ep was very much Lisa's love for her family despite their flaws so it wouldn't have had quite the same impact if she and Hugh had worked things out.
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G.H.
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« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2007, 18:26 »

Well to be fair, the theme of that ep was very much Lisa's love for her family despite their flaws so it wouldn't have had quite the same impact if she and Hugh had worked things out.

That is true, I suppose. Confused And unfortunately, the writers had to break Lisa's heart again to show it.
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Look at that hand, lying there
The room is dark, she shows no fear
I'm lying still, my eyes are wide
My heart is pumping, I'm still alive

I'm still awake against my will
What will it ever take
To still this burning in me?
brakusaetsya
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« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2007, 20:36 »

janglewolf
dantheman40k
Of course you're right, guys. That's why all people in Springfield would never be completely happy... It's too boring. Sad

I just want to say, that Lisa wasn't too demanding of Hugh. Self-dependence is very important for Lisa, she wants what she wants and if she agreed with Hugh, then later he pressured on Lisa more. And fixing some peoples' flaws is impossible (although Marge said, that she reclaimed Homer, ha-ha). So, she couldn't let Hugh separate her from family.

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Me fail english? That's unpossible! Wink
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Ich bin Schnappi, das kleine Krokodil,
Ich schnappe gern, das ist mein Lieblingsspiel.
Shadow Nait
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« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2007, 22:58 »

dantheman40k
That's one of my fav. episodes ever - probably the most... (as well as for other Lisa-fans here Tongue) So i did a little research.

Quote
She expects him to accept her family with out any regard for his own feelings."
Never she did that and I'll try to prove it.
I must tell that Lisa never demanded something from Hugh. She has simply let him know she does not wish to support with him any relations when has come to light that contradiction in their views on life. Let us to recollect the original plot (please download the capsule of 2f15 if you don't believe me):
1) First of all Lisa and Hugh go in a taxi from the airport. That was the very fisrt moment when they conduct conversation concerning somehow to Lisa's relatives. At this moment we can see that Lisa is very much worries about there was no happening something shameful or terrible.
2) The scene with burning of Union Jack was hurting to Hugh very much indeed. But also Lisa was nervous too much as you can remember. She didn't standing with an empty expression on her face or more of it didn't laugh at situation (though damn it was worthy of it. That "flag-raising" is such a delirium...man...)
3) The scene in the bedroom of betrothed (first time - they not wear their pyjamas yet). Lisa itself names all that was try Hugh's nerves just as "ordeal". And he calms her at the same time easily determine of that he can permit - with that damn phrase:
"Lisa, I love you so much I'm willing to go through anything."
See? The borders starts to appear!
Now, to the next... The conversation during the supper with all the family at table - no claims at all, if only to not consider that Hugh has even more become stringer in a lack o culture of Simpsons family.
4) The second time they're in the bedroom. Lisa again undertakes an attempt somehow to play down the negative impression at Hughfrom her family.
"I'm sorry I left you alone with Homer and Bart." - she says with a grief.
5) Right before the conflict - they're talking about the cufflinks. In this time i must to agree that finally Lisa is expecting something from him. But this is not the case she want or force him to take some decision - whether it she and her family or his notorious precious honoUr is more dear to his heart. And hell he does that decision in the next scene...
6) The breakup. There's nothing i can add - all was told by other fans. So i just have to summarize all that crap i post here...

Thus, as you can see, for all the time of current episode we never saw a moment when Lisa tolds to Hugh that he SHOULD RESPECT her native or obliged to do something, expect for  that turning-point with damn pork-cufflinks. Simply, you understand, it is like already self-evident for Lisa - to recpect close people. And she of extremely high opinion about Hugh (don't you think she would start close relationships with whoever Smile ) However it's Hugh himself has not justified her expectations. Because of his arrogance and pride he hasn't wanted to do like a gentleman. Instead of understanding and conceding to his lady, he persists speaking something there about honour of family (a honour from which is probably remained nothing in 21 century)

Quote
the fact remains that Lisa was being rather arrogant in demanding that Hugh accept her family when clearly he couldnt do that.

Summing up i shall tell i have nothing to blame Lisa. And i think it's not the point at which you have to stand upon. It is Hugh itself guilty in his own acts.

Simpreal
"Let's see, if i was in Hugh shoes..."
It's really hard to imagine for me since i'm not a Hugh-type person and never will be such one. He maybe much intelligent and erudite than me, but, hell... i have my own character and if there was an occasion to take a closer look with such girl like Lisa of course i should behave myself with her parents exactly the same way as and with other poeple, not more, or less...
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G.H.
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« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2007, 08:30 »

Yggdrasill
I must agree here, Lisa never truly asked anything of Hugh. I think, on his part, it was mainly his inability to put up with the Simpson family. And it his him that suggests they cut Lisa's family out of their lives. Lisa is not asking him to accept her family, in fact she prepares him for the worst (as he says in the cab). But she doesn't want to not ever see her family again either. In this case, actually, I think we have it mixed; Hugh is asking too much of Lisa.

Put yourself in her shoes: Even if your family is slightly dysfunctional and annoying at times, they are your family and have raised you. You still love them, and time has only strengthened your bonds. Suddenly you fall in love, and bring your spouse back to meet your family. The family does their best to make your spouse feel welcome, but the two lifestyles just conflict too much. In the end, your spouse tells you that soon you'll be leaving the country again, and you "won't have to deal with" your family. But you don't want this - the two of you soon get in an argument and it is apparent that your spouse does not understand you.

I'm not a Hugh-type person either... although I do live my life slightly like Lisa. And I don't think that, considering her feelings, I would ask the same of her. Visits would be a pain, true, but more than enough to put up with for her love. Apparently Hugh was wrong when he stated "Lisa I love you so much, I'm willing to go through anything for you..."
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Look at that hand, lying there
The room is dark, she shows no fear
I'm lying still, my eyes are wide
My heart is pumping, I'm still alive

I'm still awake against my will
What will it ever take
To still this burning in me?
Casper
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« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2007, 15:25 »

Without going overboard, they met in America. Hugh wanted her back in England. If he's so rich, inteligent and above all, full of care, surely he wouldnt pressure her to go to England for her life.

* Casper looks out the window

... I mean thats just damn right cruel.
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G.H.
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« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2007, 00:38 »

Casper
No, I think they met in England... remember, they were at the university?
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Look at that hand, lying there
The room is dark, she shows no fear
I'm lying still, my eyes are wide
My heart is pumping, I'm still alive

I'm still awake against my will
What will it ever take
To still this burning in me?
Casper
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A world without string...?! Is CHAOS!!

« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2007, 12:45 »

Thats exactly what I sai... uh... I mean... A bomb!

*runs into the distance*

(opps Embarrassed)
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Simpson-Realities
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“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter and those who matter don’t mind”
-Dr. Seuss.
Dagdamor
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« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2007, 13:38 »

I'm on Hugh's side here, forgive me people! Embarrassed
Living with the Simpsons family isn't something easy. And in that episode, they were especially dangerous and crazy. Even Marge... how could she allow Lisa and Hugh to live in the Homer's hand-made room? All time Hugh was in Springfield, his life was in constant danger. No surprise he wanted to take Lisa away from this insanity. He acted too harsh in the final scene, but I understand him perfectly. Of course he wouldn't lock Lisa in his apartments, put her on a chain or something, Lisa still would be able to meet her relatives. Lisa did a mistake stopping the wedding imho. Her endless love towards her parents played a bad trick with her that moment Sad Hugh was a nice guy, I think Lisa would be happy with him.
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Suusje
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« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2007, 18:08 »

@Dag:

After Hugh said "I'll be glad when we get to England and we don't have to deal with them anymore", he said "Well, maybe Marge can come over". I think Lisa would still like to see Homer, Bart and Maggie.

I agree it probably wasn't the smartest idea to stop the wedding. I'm sure they could've solved this together, because they're both very intelligent. But I guess that's what you get with only 20 minutes of airtime on TV. Tongue
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G.H.
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« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2007, 23:32 »

Dagdamor
Hm, I do agree with you here: Lisa did act too hastily. I don't think Hugh is a bad guy; they would have been very happy with each other... if only they had taken the time to work things out Sad I don't think Hugh really meant they would never see Lisa's family anymore, either... but maybe he did. We will never know. Confused
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www.youtube.com/MrPinkFloyd882

Look at that hand, lying there
The room is dark, she shows no fear
I'm lying still, my eyes are wide
My heart is pumping, I'm still alive

I'm still awake against my will
What will it ever take
To still this burning in me?
Dagdamor
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« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2007, 10:33 »

Suusje
I'm pretty sure when he was saying "we" that moment, he meant "me" actually.
Scary remembrances still were too fresh in his memory... Big Grin
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When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix
Shadow Nait
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« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2007, 18:58 »

GeorgeHarrison
" But you don't want this - the two of you soon get in an argument and it is apparent that your spouse does not understand you."
And that's the point - i'm afraid they never understood each other really up to the end. Yes, they had similar beliefs, predilections and, probably, a way of life. But two persons never similar against each other up to the end. There are always distinctions in something. And the only solution to minimise the negative effect from such dissimilarity is only a understanding and desire to meet each other's half-way. That both Lisa and Hugh could not make and from their own side.

Hugh has refused to have any contacts with her family, laying down his conditions in the categorical form, or rather that was even his already final decision without any chance to dispute that. That has extremely angered Lisa, having forced her to undertake reciprocal actions in not less rigid form. There simply did not remain places for the arrangement. The emotions has filled them out. And that was bad.

Casper
"surely he wouldnt pressure her to go to England for her life."
Agreed. Smile

Dagdamor
Maybe you're right here... To be near to Homer might be really dangerous, especially for the people who aren't a member of his family yet. Somehow or other i think he was a great to be her husband too.
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